Be pro @ ygo Part 2: Simultaneous Effects Go On Chain. SEGOC for short.

SimultaneousLossDR04-EN-C-UEThis is part two of a five+ part series about certain intricacies in Yugioh that many players seem to be unaware of. This time, I’m going to explain turn player priority and the flow chart. Keep in mind that I’ve played the game for years and am not trying to be condescending. You probably know things about your hobby/job/expertise that feel obvious and second nature, but to any beginner might not be. If you haven’t yet, read part one.

Disclaimer/Warning:
1) Whenever I use “CLX”, that means “Chain Link X.”
2) Just because something SHOULD work a certain way doesn’t mean it does.
3) I use the term “mandatory” and “optional” throughout. The official term as far as I know is “compulsory”. They mean the same thing and almost everyone uses the term “mandatory.”

FLOWCHART AND PRIORITY

In the last part I explained how to build a Chain, but how do we determine, in a fair way, who gets to activate cards when? Turn player priority (page 44 in the latest rulebook when writing this.) Many players will try to tell you that priority doesn’t exist, but they will also probably tell you Super Polymerization is Spell Speed 4. What they’re talking about is Ignition Priority, which no longer exists, so just ignore it.

Konami put out an official flowchart that tells you when you can do things in Yugioh. This is that later part where I go into detail about SEGOC. SEGOC stands for Simultaneous Effects Go On Chain. Open up that chart, look at the chart. Breathe the flowchart. Eat the flowchart. Sleep the flowchart. Be the flowchart. Every Phase and Step begins in box A. The game state is open, which means the turn player can perform any action that they can do. An open game state does not mean your opponent has a chance to activate effects right now, it actually means the opposite. It means the turn player has priority to do a thing. There is also no “closed” game state. The game state is open, or not open, but “closed gamestate” isn’t so bad. Don’t bother correcting people who say closed gamestate.

If the turn player activates a card or effect that starts a Chain, we follow the Chain Rules in which we build it, then resolve the Chain. The player who did NOT activate the most recent Chain Link has priority to add another Chain Link. Once both players have decided not to add any more Chain Links, resolve the Chain. Then check for triggered effects.

You literally just follow the flow chart for every action and every phase. Turn player performs an action, then follow the chart. If the turn player takes an action that does not start a chain we go to the blue box on the left. From there, you check if it activates any triggered effects. If yes, build and resolve the chain. You literally just always follow the flowchart. If it helps, print it out and follow it the entire duel, every duel until you have it memorized. I can’t explain it any better than the flowchart already does. Good job, Konami. (That isn’t sarcasm. A+ on the chart.)

One example recently brought up was a Monarch player starting 4 chains during the turn of an Atlantean player. At the time of writing, Monarchs (the pantheism/domain/ehther/erebus build) and Atlanteans (due to Neptabyss) are both playable on the competitive level.

1: Atlantean player Normal Summons Neptabyss. This is an action performed in Box A by the turn player. This is the left action, so we follow the chart to the yellow box and check for any triggered effects. At this time, nothing is triggered.
2: The turn player (the Atlantean player) gets a chance to activate fast effects, but either cannot or chooses not to and passes. Then, the opponent (Monarch player) has a chance to activate a fast effect. They choose to activate The Monarchs Stormforth.
3: A chain was started so we move to Box D and follow chain rules until the chain resolves. The Atlantean player doesn’t activate anything. After the chain resolves, it goes to the yellow box checking for triggers.
4: If nothing is triggered, the Atlantean player can activate fast effects, but chooses to pass. Then the Monarch player activates The Prime Monarch’s effect from the Graveyard. The Atlantean player chooses not to activate anything (or can’t)
5: A chain was started so we move to Box D and follow chain rules until the chain resolves. The Atlantean player doesn’t activate anything. After the chain resolves, it goes to the yellow box checking for triggers.
6: If nothing is triggered, the Atlantean player can activate fast effects, but has nothing to activate. Now the Monarch player has a chance to activate fast effects. They choose to activate Ehther the Heavenly Monarch’s effect to Tribute Summon itself.
7: A chain was started so we move to Box D and follow chain rules until the chain resolves. The Atlantean player doesn’t activate anything. The chain resolves and the Monarch player Tributes both his opponent’s Neptabyss (thanks, stormforth) and his own Prime Monarch for Ehther.
8: After the chain resolves, we move to the yellow box checking for triggered effects. At this time Ehther the Heavenly Monarch’s effect to summon another monster from the deck can activate, so the Monarch player activates it.
9: A chain was started so we move to Box D and follow chain rules until the chain resolves. The Atlantean player doesn’t activate anything.

So the Monarch Player started 4 whole chains between when Neptabyss was Normal Summoned and the activation of its ignition effect. And because Neptabyss was tributed, it won’t be able to activate its effect (without summoning it back or another copy.) It doesn’t feel fair as the Atlantean player. And as the Monarch player, it feels like you’re doing unfair things. In actual Yugioh rules, none were broken. The best decks have always been the decks that can do “unfair” things that follow the rules. In the TCG, DUEA gave us Shaddolls, Burning Abyss and Tellarknights. People quickly realized Tellarknights were inferior to BA and dolls due to the fact that Tellarknights don’t do anything unfair. It only got worse with NECH as both BA and dolls got a boost and Qliphorts were introduced. When Lord of the Tachyon Galaxy was released Dragon Rulers and Spellbooks smothered any other decks trying to compete with infinite cards. It wasn’t fair, but it didn’t break any rules.

So you want to know about SEGOC?

Simultaneous Effects Go On Chain

It can’t get more simple than that. I tribute Sangan to Tribute Summon Raiza the Storm Monarch, Sangan is sent to the Graveyard at the same time Raiza is summoned so their effects go on a chain. Let’s look at their PSCT. (At the time of writing Sangan has not received an effect changing errata in the TCG)




Sangan
“When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck to your hand.”

Raiza the Storm Monarch
“If this card is Tribute Summoned: Target 1 card on the field; place that target on the top of the Deck.”

Both try to start a chain at the same time, so they go on a chain. Two simultaneous effects going on the chain at the same time. Would ya look at that. Hmpf. I can’t find an official source about why it works this way, but after looking into it further, Upper Deck Entertainment had documents detailing how this stuff works, but ownership has since transferred to Konami Digital Entertainment and the UDE sites no longer exist. The order of all trigger effects is as follows.

1: Turn player mandatory trigger effects
2: Opponent mandatory trigger effects
3: Turn player optional trigger effects
4: Opponent optional trigger effects
5: Normal chain rules taking turns adding links

Optional effects say “you can” in the text. Mandatory effects do not say you can. Most spells/traps are optional. Mandatory effects are only on cards that are already face-up or happen when they’re sent to the graveyard or something similar. The card has to be in public knowledge if it’s mandatory.

My best guess is that because mandatory effects have to happen, they go on the chain first. The turn player’s first, then the opponent’s. That is following the rule below, so that makes sense. Then any optional effects starting with the turn player. You still get to choose the order of the simultaneous effects. If you tribute both Qliphort Helix and Carrier at the same time, you can choose the chain order.

pages 46 n 47

In the TCG you have to order the chain in the order that the cards met the trigger. In the OCG you can order them however you want.

I tribute Sangan for the Tribute Summon of Raiza. Both are mandatory and meet their triggers at the same time. According to our rules, the player who activated the effects (me) can order them however they want. But the TCG rule is that Sangan has to be Chain Link 1 because it met its trigger first. All of the turn player’s mandatory trigger effects first on the chain in whatever order they like.

The next part is about missing the timing and should actually be up on time, next Thursday. If you learned something, click an ad. Infinite Gold is out now, get your Giant Hands. If you’re in Europe, you can’t use THE LIGHTNING but I hope you enjoy your day early Euro Gold.




6 thoughts on “Be pro @ ygo Part 2: Simultaneous Effects Go On Chain. SEGOC for short.”

  1. Hey, found this one looking back through your old posts, and I had been wondering about this sort of thing for a while now, actually. I run Black Rose Dragon in my Gusto deck, and I’d been going nuts trying to figure out the order for my usual setup for it, which is get Gulldo/Falco -> Synchro Black Rose -> Blow up Field/Summon effect of Gulldo/Falco. I couldn’t figure out what came first, Gulldo/Falco’s effect or Black Rose’s effect, as I didn’t want to try to pull a card I needed for my build like Caam only to have it get blown up with BRD. I even asked my locals judge, and he wasn’t sure and said to just run Turn Priority and pick which one was CL1. From what I see on your post, Gulldo/Falco would trigger first, therefore resolving second, giving me my summon after BRDBomb. Is that correct, or would I miss timing on one of them?

    1. Neither Gusto Gulldo nor Falco can activate when you synchro summon. They never met their activation requirements becuase they’re When…You can effects.

      If you’re destroying Gulldo and Falco with Black Rose Dragon’s destruction effect, you choose the order as long as the destruction was Chain Link 1.

      Please click an ad 🙂

      1. I’m not certain I understand. Gulldo just says when it goes from Field to Graveyard, and Falco just says when it goes from Field to Graveyard except by battle. I thought Synchro Summon would have counted for those. Is it because it’s not mandatory?

        I would click one right now, but my computer (self-censored) up when I try to load those. I’ll take a look at them later when I’m running mobile.

        1. The Synchro Summon of Black Rose Dragon is the last thing to happen. It isn’t when it’s sent to the Graveyard. Yes, it did go to the Graveyard but we’re past that point and it’s too late to activate them.

          1. Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks, that would have been really annoying to learn in the middle of a tournament or something. By the way, does your Amazon affiliate link only work for specific sellers? Wanted to know for when I next order cards.

    2. Any Amazon link I’ve dropped will work for any product as long as you go to Amazon from that initial link.

      You can buy Yugioh cards, Pokemon cards, video games, action figures, even shaving razors and it’ll all work.

      Home page link: http://amzn.to/2egf1dC

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